The current TP-knock-out-system of the olympics is far from being functional. Poland completely ruined the olympic Team Pursuit event by tanking in the semifinal of the mens event and the final of the womens event. If you buy a ticket of approximately €150 euros you don't want a team participating in the final to throw in the towel even before the race started. Regulations should be changed so that riders who participated in races that were won, receive a medal only.
Slechts een vraag: Waarom zijn we plotseling over gestapt op het Engels? Ik dacht dat dit een Nederlands forum is over schaatsen?
Dont be afraid. I have basically said what I wanted to say. Slightly different perspectives at times dont hurt. I am especially interested in the topic of this thread, and wanted to post my ideas on this forum also. Go back to dutch.
Let me add a couple of things. (Followed this forum for a while, and will keep on enjoying doing so although I will soon follow the masses to regular social media) The sprinters sphere: Create a system for personal qualification for the sprint Worlds through the qualifying event in the Wold Cup. A system which include the final phase of drama of selection for countries with the strenght in depth like the Netherlands. The system of counting just the best 500 and 1000 is brilliant, but why hiding the drama in in a single distance event? Various "time to beat" to compare with (especially) on day two make up for the disadvantage of having a few more pairs on this special occasion. By making the 500 the last distance on both days, this distance would be suitable for quite widespread(?) live-television - especially on day 2. Emphasis on the samalog, but you could still award points on the single distance. No A- and B-groups on this rare occasion. 28 best richly awarded with points in the Grand World Cup. You also have the fight to be among those 28 who qualify for the sprint Worlds (similar guidelines as today but PERSONAL spots), and - not last - for the bigger countries the fight among themselves to be among their best three skaters to make it to the Worlds. As for the team sprint, I find the event promising (though the same problem as for the TP: An advantageous Knock out event doesnt fit in). 2x500 (/plus 2x1000) in an ordinary World Cup event isnt perfect. Who won the 500 (or 1000) this week end? Hard to recall for ordinary viewers when you have another one the day after. To arrange an World Cup event with team sprint, 1x500 and 1x1000 is just fine in my opinion, but you also fragment the sport further by choosing this path. Thankfully tools are simultaneously offered to wrap things better up: Larger emphasis on the Grand World Cup, and it seems very suitable to introduce an occational knock-out event on the classical distance of 500. Instead of having two separate 500m during a weekend, you introduce a cup event. Roughly along the guidelines that I have mentioned (those who have been eliminated in the first round could be allowed to partisipate in a b-cup along with the lesser rated. Ranking based on the result of a preceding weekend possibly preferred.) Best wishes K
@Kristian the World Cup final is currently a "mustard-after-dinner" competition as we call it. A competition with more waiting than skating and few competitors, after all the World Championships. That competition could get a more special feel with a knock out system for multiple distances. Then it would be unique, currently it's just another World Cup but made more boring.
What exactly do you mean? Each distance must be competitive but not to exhausting for the participants. Or are you thinking about the best in the Grand World Cup making it out on several distances? Would a cup format be suitable in such a case? Will provide eneven duels. I think the final is interesting in those cases where there are still something to fight for (i.e. titles). Nothing I have thought about before, but maybe one should simply allow just the four (few, I know...) best on each distances prior to the World Cup final, and begin on scratch again? I.e. you have proven that you are among the very four best during a long season, but in the final those four begin on scratch to decide who get titles and money rewards. Then I think I would stick to not doing it in this way when we talk about the Grand World Cup. Stay with the mass start as last in line, few partisipants even here, but allow all qualified on other distances in this one. If there still some to fight for in the Grand WC they will show up.
@Kristian Something like this: Thursday 500m eighth finals (with best 16 skaters) 1000m eighth finals (16) Mass start semifinals (16 per semifinal) TP semifinals (4 teams) Friday 500m quarter finals (8) 1000m quarter finals (8) 3k/5k best 16 (duel winners go to * ) TS semifinals (4 teams) Saturday 500m semifinals and finals (4/2) 1000m semifinals (4) TP finals (2) Mass start finals (16) Sunday *5k/10k best 8 (not KO) 1000m finals (2) TS finals (2) ---BREAK--- and for the final conclusion... A 1500m with the top 12 of the 1500m ranking and the top 12 of the Grand World Cup ranking. Probably too exhausting with 4 days in a row a 1000m, but with a drawing system of nr.1-nr.16 etc., the best ones in the ranking shouldn't have much trouble with the first rounds. Long distance final classification decision with a 5k/10k might be interesting as well. This is quite a rigorous idea, I know. I'm actually against a KO system in normal competitions, but once a year could be possible, giving the finals more cachet. Wouldn't be unhappy if the ISU would add this. But I would be much happier if the ISU/IOC would make all round skating part of the Olympic program.
ok. I guess that you like most other die hard supporters are talking about the full samalogs with the current 4 distances making it to the Olympics. Very unlikely to happen. But with speedskating broadening, and renewing, its distance program, a closer analogy to athletics is the result one could say. Forget field events (!), but why not an allround event? Not 10, not 4, but THREE distances is my suggestion. More realistic?
I know you would love to see a dreikampf (as you call it). I don't see that happening though. All skating all round tournaments consist of 4 distances: 500-5000-1500-10000, 500-3000-1500-5000, 500-1500-1000-3000, 500-1500-1000-5000, 500-1000-500-1000... So why would Olympic all rounding be a new three distance competition? Oh, a mass start as fourth distance? I say 'please no'! Speed skating is two people or teams in separate tracks trying to go as fast as possible. That's a unique part of long track skating. Btw, the mass start is just an invention to make long track more 21th-century-proof. Marathon skating is something completely different: it is skating long races on rivers and lakes. But because of the lack of natural ice, marathon competitions started to be held on 400m tracks. That created the unintended mix of these two different skating forms.
In the sixties is was quite common to compete on three distances in smaller competitions I have been told/read, but you indeed have right that four distances are firmly established since the beginning of it all. In the WK qualifier in the World Cup you have TWO distances though, so imagining bigger competitions with three shouldnt be that far away. Decisive shold be if three proofs to be exciting and watchable in 2016. I dont really know yet since its not been demonstrated as a medal event, but I highly suspect it could be exciting. Speedskating have gone through changes in its competition formats lately as we all know. Allround/samalog have not seen that many real changes yet though. For me best illustrated by the "new" EK samalog concept. In the seventies Johnny Nilson among others tried to establish a professional league. EK sprint was tried then, and here we go again trying almost the same thing in 2017. Ok, now they are trying EK sprint and allround at the same event, but you know what I mean. Personally I am still very much looking forward to the EK this season I must stress. Like the experimental thing of it ( Will probably go there if its going to be arranged in Warsaw..), but would love to see a slightly different format (EK) in the future. (and by that I dont mean single distances, which seems to me as an rather unnecessary introduction given the heavy focus already in the sport on single distances). Unrealistic? Probably,but nevertheless.
http://static.isu.org/media/378427/2033-entries-isu-championships-2017.pdf De al vergeven quota voor de ISU-kampioenschappen. Nederland heeft op alle langebaantoernooien in ieder geval twee startplekken.
De ISU heeft de locaties van de kampioenschappen in 2019 bekendgemaakt. Kampioenschappen seizoen 18/19 EK allround/sprint Collalbo, 11-13 januari WK afstanden Inzell, 7-10 februari WK junioren Baselga, 15-17 februari WK sprint Heerenveen, 23-24 februari WK allround Calgary, 2-3 maart Een kopie van seizoen 10/11 dus. Het enige toernooi dat toen op een andere plek was, was het WK junioren. Alle andere toernooien zijn op dezelfde plek als in 2011.
Het wordt toch geen EK afstanden, maar een EK allround/sprint? 2017 allround/sprint Heerenveen 2018 afstanden Kolomna 2019 allround/sprint Collalbo 2020 afstanden
Just a question: Have the NK ever been arranged like the EK will look like in January? I.e classic samalogs with both allround and sprint with EIGHT distances on Saturday. Is Arie Koops the man behind the idea?
It was done in 2010/2011 in Heerenveen, 2013/2014 in Amsterdam (outdoor) en last season. Not 8 distances on the second day but 6: 500m and 1000m sprint (second races) and the 3km ladies and 5km men allround. It was indeed Arie Koops idea.
I am a little bit astonished that my modest presence could be a problem of any sort. (could it be my opinions? ) This is a dutch speaking forum. I have already told you that I just wanted to present my ideas for a dutch audience also, so if it is helpful in any way I will restraint myself even further: I promise I will restraint myself further to just reading from now on. Best wishes.
As far as I'm concerned, there is no need to be astonished. Please keep on writing in english and you will get a reply in english. As long as you don't mind that most of our other postings are in dutch.
Een Engels topic? Geweldig ! Zo zie je maar weer eens dat zelfs Engelsen van schaatsen houden Super ! Op naar de eerste WC in GB
